Comments on: Kelner confuses profit with success http://www.andydickinson.net/2007/03/20/kelner-confuses-profit-with-success/ online journalism, newspaper video and digital media Tue, 06 Jan 2009 12:48:45 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.7 hourly 1 By: Daniel http://www.andydickinson.net/2007/03/20/kelner-confuses-profit-with-success/comment-page-1/#comment-4980 Daniel Thu, 14 Aug 2008 09:58:24 +0000 http://andydickinson.com/?p=233#comment-4980 I read similar article also named confuses profit with success | andydickinson.net, and it was completely different. Personally, I agree with you more, because this article makes a little bit more sense for me I read similar article also named confuses profit with success | andydickinson.net, and it was completely different. Personally, I agree with you more, because this article makes a little bit more sense for me

]]> By: Martin Stabe » A different online strategy: Lag behind deliberately http://www.andydickinson.net/2007/03/20/kelner-confuses-profit-with-success/comment-page-1/#comment-276 Martin Stabe » A different online strategy: Lag behind deliberately Sun, 25 Mar 2007 11:10:23 +0000 http://andydickinson.com/?p=233#comment-276 [...] But if the Independent’s short-lived experiment with blogging is anything to go by, there is, of course no guarantee that this approach will be successful. The innovators will be way ahead, having learned what doesn’t work as well as what does. Those who follow the pioneers will have to reinvent the wheel every time. [...] [...] But if the Independent’s short-lived experiment with blogging is anything to go by, there is, of course no guarantee that this approach will be successful. The innovators will be way ahead, having learned what doesn’t work as well as what does. Those who follow the pioneers will have to reinvent the wheel every time. [...]

]]> By: Andy http://www.andydickinson.net/2007/03/20/kelner-confuses-profit-with-success/comment-page-1/#comment-275 Andy Wed, 21 Mar 2007 22:46:02 +0000 http://andydickinson.com/?p=233#comment-275 Nigel I wasn't saying you were blurring the lines. 'We' the media and those interested in it shouldnt. You are right that no amount of fancy packaging will sell a product. But I think that means you think more about what it is you are trying to wrap in the first place. The 'product' for the web is different than that of the newspaper. Nigel

I wasn’t saying you were blurring the lines. ‘We’ the media and those interested in it shouldnt.

You are right that no amount of fancy packaging will sell a product. But I think that means you think more about what it is you are trying to wrap in the first place. The ‘product’ for the web is different than that of the newspaper.

]]> By: Martin Stabe » links for 2007-03-21 http://www.andydickinson.net/2007/03/20/kelner-confuses-profit-with-success/comment-page-1/#comment-274 Martin Stabe » links for 2007-03-21 Wed, 21 Mar 2007 12:23:00 +0000 http://andydickinson.com/?p=233#comment-274 [...] Andy Dickinson: Kelner confuses profit with success ‘Perhaps it speaks volumes for Kelner’s policy that with despite being in profit, the website is almost universally criticised and his papers popularity is in decline.” (tags: independent newspapers online) [...] [...] Andy Dickinson: Kelner confuses profit with success ‘Perhaps it speaks volumes for Kelner’s policy that with despite being in profit, the website is almost universally criticised and his papers popularity is in decline.” (tags: independent newspapers online) [...]

]]> By: Nigel Barlow http://www.andydickinson.net/2007/03/20/kelner-confuses-profit-with-success/comment-page-1/#comment-273 Nigel Barlow Wed, 21 Mar 2007 08:57:03 +0000 http://andydickinson.com/?p=233#comment-273 Andy, I dont believe that I was blurring the line between quality journalism and technology,but I think that Kelner has a valid point about not rushing in.Some media sites certainly have.As with the first dot com boom,companies rushed to get a web prescence simply because it was there.They forgot ,in the rush ,that it is the product that is the most important and no amount of fancy packaging will sell a bad product. Ed and Steve,the Independent site as a multimedia product is pretty bad but if you use it simply as a way to access the fine writing on it then it serves its purpose.Yes the Express has updated its site this week but do we really want to read about Princess Di,mortgage rates and tornadoes all week. Andy,

I dont believe that I was blurring the line between quality journalism and technology,but I think that Kelner has a valid point about not rushing in.Some media sites certainly have.As with the first dot com boom,companies rushed to get a web prescence simply because it was there.They forgot ,in the rush ,that it is the product that is the most important and no amount of fancy packaging will sell a bad product.

Ed and Steve,the Independent site as a multimedia product is pretty bad but if you use it simply as a way to access the fine writing on it then it serves its purpose.Yes the Express has updated its site this week but do we really want to read about Princess Di,mortgage rates and tornadoes all week.

]]> By: Ed Walker http://www.andydickinson.net/2007/03/20/kelner-confuses-profit-with-success/comment-page-1/#comment-272 Ed Walker Tue, 20 Mar 2007 18:12:14 +0000 http://andydickinson.com/?p=233#comment-272 I was disappointed to read Kelner's comments. I think he's missing a trick and will struggle in the future, as the readership declines. I used to buy the Indy a lot, but now I hardly bother, I find The Guardian more interesting and the mix of content online makes it my first point of call - I wouldn't even consider The Indy. Is that not worrying for Mr Kelner, if students, the next young professionals, are not looking in the direction of his paper anymore? I was disappointed to read Kelner’s comments. I think he’s missing a trick and will struggle in the future, as the readership declines.

I used to buy the Indy a lot, but now I hardly bother, I find The Guardian more interesting and the mix of content online makes it my first point of call - I wouldn’t even consider The Indy. Is that not worrying for Mr Kelner, if students, the next young professionals, are not looking in the direction of his paper anymore?

]]> By: Steve Hill http://www.andydickinson.net/2007/03/20/kelner-confuses-profit-with-success/comment-page-1/#comment-271 Steve Hill Tue, 20 Mar 2007 18:07:59 +0000 http://andydickinson.com/?p=233#comment-271 The Indie's site is pretty bad - at one point all the content was free, then it went mostly subscription (and nobody bothered to pay) and now it's mostly free again. What's the next 'strategy'? Kelner just doesn’t understand his readership. People read The Guardian on paper because it offers them something. They will download the podcasts, read the blogs or print out G24 because it offers them something else, something different. Even the Express and Daily Star are investing in Web2.0 websites. As you've mentioned, what's worrying is that any announcement regarding ‘convergence’ seems to be followed by an announcement about job cuts. Staff at Emap are suffering the consequences. We have to break this particularly vile link. The Indie’s site is pretty bad - at one point all the content was free, then it went mostly subscription (and nobody bothered to pay) and now it’s mostly free again. What’s the next ’strategy’?

Kelner just doesn’t understand his readership. People read The Guardian on paper because it offers them something. They will download the podcasts, read the blogs or print out G24 because it offers them something else, something different.

Even the Express and Daily Star are investing in Web2.0 websites.

As you’ve mentioned, what’s worrying is that any announcement regarding ‘convergence’ seems to be followed by an announcement about job cuts. Staff at Emap are suffering the consequences. We have to break this particularly vile link.

]]> By: Andy http://www.andydickinson.net/2007/03/20/kelner-confuses-profit-with-success/comment-page-1/#comment-270 Andy Tue, 20 Mar 2007 16:03:54 +0000 http://andydickinson.com/?p=233#comment-270 I think we need to be careful not to equate engaging with technology with a decline in journalism standards or a drop in news quality. We should also be careful that we don't expect journos to do this exciting stuff without training. The fact that they are says more about the managment attitude to their staff than it does about the validity of embracing new technology I think we need to be careful not to equate engaging with technology with a decline in journalism standards or a drop in news quality.

We should also be careful that we don’t expect journos to do this exciting stuff without training.

The fact that they are says more about the managment attitude to their staff than it does about the validity of embracing new technology

]]> By: Nigel Barlow http://www.andydickinson.net/2007/03/20/kelner-confuses-profit-with-success/comment-page-1/#comment-269 Nigel Barlow Tue, 20 Mar 2007 14:18:02 +0000 http://andydickinson.com/?p=233#comment-269 Andy, I too read the interview with Simon Kelner online yesterday and was suprised at his comments especially what you call his luddite attitude to convergence. However I think that he is making a valid point about the Indy not rushing headlong into technology.I dont know whether you saw the piece from the University of Cardiff about Trinity putting their Welsh titles at risk thru investment in the web as opposed to news gathering and some of the comments of journalists. "Interviews with journalists across the region have uncovered practices including staff being forced to do more work such as video and podcasts without extra pay and more importantly without adequate training." The Independent is lagging behind others on its web presence but it is still one of my ports of call for newswriting online.Robert Fisk's reports from the Middle East contain some of the best writing on the web at the moment. The rush towards technology must not take precedence over quality news coverage. Andy,

I too read the interview with Simon Kelner online yesterday and was suprised at his comments especially what you call his luddite attitude to convergence.

However I think that he is making a valid point about the Indy not rushing headlong into technology.I dont know whether you saw the piece from the University of Cardiff about Trinity putting their Welsh titles at risk thru investment in the web as opposed to news gathering and some of the comments of journalists.

“Interviews with journalists across the region have uncovered practices including staff being forced to do more work such as video and podcasts without extra pay and more importantly without adequate training.”

The Independent is lagging behind others on its web presence but it is still one of my ports of call for newswriting online.Robert Fisk’s reports from the Middle East contain some of the best writing on the web at the moment.

The rush towards technology must not take precedence over quality news coverage.

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